Take No Prisoners at the Poker Table?
I’ve been playing Poker a couple of nights a week for the last few months. It’s a bit of fun and since I work from home and get buried under family life most days it’s been good for me to get out and meet a few people. I’m living in a new area so most of my old friends are a good distance away and I’ve been making some friends at the Poker Table since I've become a regular player. It’s become more of a social thing than anything else as my fortunes have been quite mixed but I really enjoy the banter and even the camaraderie of competing over a few beverages. Anyways, last night a situation played out with one of my new friends that I’m a bit conflicted about so let me tell you the story...
It was about mid-tournament and my friend is 1 seat to my right and I am the last to act. There is a short stack guy a few seats left and he shoves his whole stack in before the Flop has come out and I’m sitting there with Ace / King Offsuit – which is considered one of the Premium Hands in Poker. I’m expecting everyone to Fold so I can take him down...but to my surprise my friend to my right calls him and while I am pondering whether I want to play the AK in a big 3-way Pre-Flop Pot my friend lays his cards down on the table FACE UP as usually happens when people are All In and there is no more betting action to be had.
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He quickly realises his mistake but now I’m sitting there trying to decide whether to play and I can see his cards. He has Ace / Seven of Spades. A hand that’s not as good as mine but still dangerous. I decide to Call and the Flop comes out with another Ace and 2 more Spades. I’m in front with my King Kicker but my friend only needs one more Spade to make a Flush and take down the Pot. We look at each other a bit nervously and he Checks – possibly out of courtesy...and I also Check because his Pot Equity is probably about 40-45% and mine is too. I didn’t particularly want to flip a coin over such a big Pot...
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Then the Turn card comes out and it’s a Club. His Pot Equity drops while mine jumps and I seize the opportunity to shove my entire (still decent) stack in with a big All In Raise...and then told my friend that he should Fold because I was in front and there was less than 1 in 4 chance he would hit his flush on the river. This was not a lie at all. Of course I wanted him to Fold but it also wasn’t especially bad advice.
So he begrudgingly Folds and the River card comes out and it’s another Spade. The Short Stack turns over Ace / Queen Offsuit as we go to showdown and he loses to me. But my friend would have won the Pot if I hadn’t been so ruthless and pushed him out. Now I know he made the initial mistake and I possibly wouldn’t have played the hand that different even if I didn’t see his cards, but I feel kinda bad about being so brutal after his error. Of course everyone at the table was like “Fair Play” but as a more social player I probably would have been a bit dirty to be on the other side of it. Any Poker players here? What’s your take?
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Poker seems a fun game but I don't know how to play. So you Play it for fun or also put some money on the game ?
That's great but I don't know How to play this game. I have never played this game ever and I think its more difficult to win here.
I am a poker player.
Straight up, this is bad etiquette. I get every game is different, some more professional than others. So take my opinion for whatever you want.
But the rule is, you don't talk about the hand at play. You don't try and influence people in the hand.....ESPECIALLY if you're not in the hand.
Granted you were, but guaranteed, your opinion swayed him to fold, which in the end (unknown to you and him) helped you win the hand.
Moral of the story....just keep your mouth shut :)
Play your hand, bet accordingly, and hope luck is on your side.
......also for your friend....NEVER flip your cards over, or fold one of them. Wait until the dealer tells you what to do. SO MANY MISTAKES I've seen from people who think the hand is ALL IN....when there are still people with chips to play. Just be patient :)
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I disagree with the rule you've stated there. I've seen plenty of top flight games where there is cross-talk between players while the game is in play and decisions are being deliberated. I agree that if you are not in the hand you should be quiet, but if you're in the hand I only consider it bad etiquette if the other player(s) doesn't want to talk.
In this instance I did ask "Can I talk?" at some point post-flop and it was agreed that it was OK. It's a more social pub game so that is pretty normal for there to be table banter amongst active players in the hands here.
The main reason I feel bad about it is because the Spade turned up on the River. If it didn't I would have felt justified that my advice was good.
I understand your point and agree on this aspect (as in "heads up", aka, 1:1). ESPECIALLY if you asked (which you didn't mention in the og post...)...
If that is the case, all parties are in agreement, then no issues obviously.
The rule I mentioned, and again, I prefaced:
Is for a proper game, whether the stakes are high or for peanuts.
For example....I have JQ, you have KQ, on the turn you have me beat with a pair of Kings, let's say, but another player says, "lots of outs there for a straight or flush..." It makes you think. I might have gone all in on a bluff and wanted you to fold, and after that comment you may be more likely to do so. On the other hand, I may hit the river, and annihilate you. The way I play MY hand (or yours), should not be dictated by another player, is my point.
Let the game play. Unless of course, you've all agreed to talk.
My 2 cents.
1 in 4 is 1 in 4. You had as much info as anyone.
Well technically I had more information because he couldn't see MY hand. But I was being honest with him when I said I was in front.
@mattclarke, Yes, but for instance, it's bad etiquette to mention out loud, especially if you're not in the hand and it's not heads up to say something like..."ohhhh, 5 spades on the board, somebody has a flush." It's obvious everyone has a flush, but a player might not see all 5 spades. Or he has a spade and thinks the other players have higher spades w/o realizing he can just play the board.
Granted, every game is different, but watch some WSOP games and see how many players are actively talking about the hand at play. None of them. Unless of course it's heads up and the player to call is talking out loud essentially to himself.
Whatever advise I get or read I always take my own decisions. This way I cannot blame anyone else and be happy when I have it right.
But that is with investments but should work for poker as well. Your friend decided to fold himself.
(I never gambe big - casino viit maybe once every 5 years)
"Channeling my inner poker shark after reading this! Time to dominate the tables and leave no survivors! 🃏💥"
While I don't play poker, I do believe the rules and principles are within life's harsh and unfair reality. The game is there for capitalization, sometimes people take unfair advantage to win and while this might feel unfair. Winning is all there is.
For years I actually want to know how to play this casino card game but 🥺
It is really a nice game to play but I am really not good at it.
My take is…
YOU ARE READY FOR VEGAS!
😄
And a few more wins like this and you can afford the trip too! 😂
See you in 2024. 😘
That's the funny thing. I set a goal of earning enough with Poker to make the flight. I started well but going backwards now...and this game was in a tournament, which I dropped out of 2 places before the prizemoney. So, yeh, don't hold your breath ;)
If he would have called you he would of had the flush! Odds were against him though so he was right to fold. Nicely done!
😒😉 awwww, tough luck for your friend, but as they say..
Love and War
It’s his mistake and it’s his decision to fold. You did nothing wrong in that situation. But I wouldn’t have folded my flush chance. That’s me though
We are all friends and whenever we get together we must playing cards and it's so much interest, we spend the whole night playing it, so far I haven't played it on mobile and computer, but the way you said it. Well, from today I will also start playing it on the computer.
You did absolutely right , you even cared that we would not loose everything with your all in, the odds where at your favor and you played right .
I have played Poker on In Computer, It was when I was a kid, NOw I'm grown up and don't play it anymore. Burdon of responsibilities has taken my childhood.